Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds have a new album out today, the surprisingly joyous Wild God. Meanwhile, Cave is holding court on international affairs.

As The Independent points out, Cave was a guest Wednesday on the Reason podcast, where host Nick Gillespie asked him about his differences with Roger Waters and other musicians who support the boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS) movement as a means of protesting Israel’s government. Waters, who has never minced words about his staunch support of BDS, has criticized Cave in the past for performing in Israel. In the new interview, Cave calls Waters’ aggressive stance “deeply embarrassing,” differentiating him from fellow boycott supporter Brian Eno: “Brian Eno’s a different character. He’s a thoughtful individual.” Summing up his position, Cave said, “I just feel – and I’m no friend of the government of Israel – but I just feel on some level that I find it difficult to come to terms with using my music in order to punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government.”

He later elaborated:

I understand that this is a controversial thing to say. I just don’t agree with a cultural boycott in general. I mean, there are places where it’s worked, I think. Mostly because it doesn’t even work. Clearly it’s not working in Israel at the moment. In my view, it emboldens the very worst aspects of the current government. They exploit — it’s an isolationist thing, like “The whole world is against us. No one will come and play.” I think that it’s used to further their nefarious agendas, and at the same time punishing ordinary fans. That’s just how I feel. It’s awful what’s going on over there. But I don’t feel comfortable with that.

You can hear the interview below; the comments on Israel begin at 52:43.